Ditch the Guilt Trips: How to Tell Empowering Nonprofit Stories with Diana Heinrich
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Why do those "big nonprofits" use those emotional, tear-jerking stories? Well, it's complicated and has a long history. But today, we are sharing a much better (and more ethical) way to inspire donors. We're debunking harmful fundraising and storytelling myths to give you the tools to tell dignifies stories that get results.
My guest is the brilliant Diana Farias Heinrich, the CEO of Habrá Marketing. Diana is passionate about helping nonprofits share their work in ways that empower both clients and donors. With certifications in DEI and as an Advocate for Survivors of Domestic Violence, she brings essential expertise to our sector. We talk about the long-term harm of those guilt-driven appeals, how to build trust with clients, and the transformative power of letting people share their stories on their own terms.
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Key Episode Highlights:
Stop using "poverty porn" narratives. Data shows people will give, but they won't stick around. Focus on the transformative power of your services – showcase the positive impact you're making!
Clients deserve agency over their own stories. Informed consent conversations lay out exactly how a story will be used and the client's right to change their mind, giving a sense of control and safety within the process.
Ask open-ended questions, not leading ones. Avoid retraumatization when interviewing. Instead of asking how terrible their situation was was, focus on what they did with your services and how things changed.
Humanizing builds bridges. Portraying clients as more than just service users. Discuss their dreams, families, even fun facts – it helps donors see themselves in those your work serves.
Ethical storytelling = better organizational culture. These practices foster communication between programs and fundraising, and ultimately benefit everyone, including your mission!
Don’t forget to become a supporter of our show!
Watch this episode on Youtube: https://youtu.be/RKLqPgUfzgE
Links and Resources:
Connect with Diana on Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/dianafariasheinrich/
Cultivating ethical narratives workshop: https://witty-musician-3516.ck.page/products/cultivating-ethical-narratives
Your Guide to Informed Consent Conversations: https://informedconsentconversation.habramarketing.com/
Learn more about Habra Marketing: https://habramarketing.com/
Connect with Maria on LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/mariario/
10 Dignified questions guide: https://www.gofurthertogether.ca/sign-up
Support the show: https://www.buzzsprout.com/208666/supporters/new
Transcript:
00:00:00 Diana: I did interviews both with and without the program person who is assigned to that client. And it depended on whether or not the client was comfortable being interviewed by only me or if they wanted to have a support person. It was up to them. But the only way that I knew which was the best option was by working directly with that case manager, that direct service staff, because that was part of the preparation was to talk to them, find out like their background, how they came to the program, and if they considered the client ready to tell their story, have they experienced enough of a transformation? Are they far enough removed from, if they experienced trauma, from that trauma to be able to talk about their story?
00:00:53 Maria: Hi friends. Ever wondered how you could turn your big ideas into results? I'm Maria Rio, your go-to guide for helping small nonprofits have real world impacts. Together, let's reimagine a better sector, tackle systemic issues, and yes, raise some serious cash. Welcome back to The Small Nonprofit, the podcast where your passion meets action.
00:01:25 Maria: Hi friends, welcome back to the Small Nonprofit Podcast. Today I'm sitting here with the lovely Diana all the way from California. Diana, Diana, como vas? I'd love for you to introduce yourself to our audience and tell them all about you.
00:01:42 Diana: Maria, Maria, I'm good. Hi. It's so lovely to be here with you today. I'm really looking forward to our conversation on ethical storytelling.
00:01:54 Maria: Me too. Before we jump into that though, how did you get into nonprofit? Have you been doing it for a long time? Was it on purpose? Was it by accident?
00:02:07 Diana: Oh, it was very much on purpose. So I used to be a project manager in my former career. A lot of skills which still apply today, but I got burnt out from that and I had always wanted to go into nonprofit. So I decided to jump in headfirst and I signed up to do volunteer work in Ghana, where I went and helped women in a rural village start a sustainable clean water business. And so that essentially changed everything for me because I came back from that trip. That was cool and everything. And it was really good work what we did. And it was very significant. But there is so much left to do.
00:02:49 Diana: And so I was like, "Okay, that's it. I'm going into nonprofit now." I knew I didn't have a job to go back to. Cause when I said, "Hey, I need, you know, these three, almost four weeks to like go to Ghana," they were like, "Okay, go ahead. We have our blessing, but you don't have a job to come back to." And so I said, okay, peace out. But I came back and I was like, 'Okay, well, I need to get my foot further in the door, right? Because I've got to have some sort of experience when I start applying to jobs." And so then I became a volunteer photographer for nonprofits. And then after that, I landed my first job in development communications as a coordinator and moved up from there.
00:03:31 Diana: And so, you know, I worked in-house doing communications and marketing for around five years before launching my own business where I still help nonprofits because I wasn't done yet. It's just that still my people, I'm like, "I still want to be involved in this world and doing work that really matters."
00:03:52 Maria: I love that. What do you think changed the most when transitioning from in-house to owning your own business in regard to how you told stories? Did anything change?
00:04:05 Diana: That's a really interesting question. In regards to storytelling, so when I was in house, I'll just tell you the origin story of how I got into ethical storytelling. It was like one of my very, very first assignments was to write bios and post photos of these young women who had won college scholarships. They were also moms. They were just these really inspirational young women. Most of them were Latina like us. And so I was like, "Yeah, like I made it. This is awesome. I'm doing really good work here." And so, you know, I wrote their bios and took a lot of their pictures and published them everywhere. You know, Facebook, Instagram, LinkedIn, Twitter, emails, all of that, the website.
00:04:58 Diana: And then, you know, we had the fundraiser, the luncheon, like all of that went really well, right? We hit our goals and everything. So I was feeling on top of the world after the event had gone on and the girls had gotten their scholarships. And then I was just sitting there just working one day when I overheard my colleagues talking about some of those girls. And I heard particularly one of their names and they were kind of like hush hush talking about something that had happened and it piqued my curiosity and I said, what happened with her? They said, "Well, she was in an abusive relationship and now her ex is being let out of jail."
00:05:44 Diana: The eyebrows raised. Yeah, exactly. I'm certified as an advocate for survivors of domestic violence. I knew immediately that everything that I had published about this young woman could lead her ex back to her. I mean, I had published her first name, her last name, her kid's name, the location of the program that she was in, all of that. It's not that hard to put two and two together. And so I immediately went back down to my desk and started taking down everything that I could. And I took down the social media posts. I took down her picture from the website, even though I felt kind of like, "Oh, maybe I shouldn't be doing this for some reason."
00:06:30 Diana: And, you know, I was like, "This can't happen again." If I had known what her situation was, I would have never done that. In the first place, we would have found some other way to celebrate this young woman. And it really this was like the catalyst for me into ethical storytelling, because I didn't know anything about it then. I thought I'm I'm telling this story. It's for a good cause. Let's celebrate her, let's raise money for the organization so we can help more young women. I have the best intentions, but even having the best intentions doesn't lead to the most positive results.
00:07:07 Diana: And so that was the catalyst to embark on this journey to figure out ethical storytelling, but also to turn that into a best practice at this organization. Because again, project manager background, right? I wanna make sure that there's steps in place and steps to follow. The organization still does it to this day, still follows that same process. And in my own work with my clients now, where I continue to interview clients on behalf of the nonprofits that I work with, and I continue to publish their stories, a lot of those same principles apply. They call it informed consent conversations where it's basically from start to finish, the client's agency is front and center. And at any time they are free to say no to whatever is being published about them. And so, you know, it's still very much ingrained in what I do with the people that I work with now.
00:08:04 Maria: You keep using the term ethical storytelling. What exactly does that mean? And how can you assess if you're telling a story ethically or not?
00:08:14 Diana: That's a great question. So with ethical storytelling, I mean, if we kind of backtrack a little bit and talk about ethics, ethics are totally subjective. What I consider good or bad might be different from somebody else's good or bad. Somebody might say, yeah, it's totally fine to publish a story about someone because they're receiving our services. But the way that I define ethical storytelling is that the client is fully aware of what you are saying or not saying about them and how you're saying it, that you're representing them the best way possible. Because my goal for the people that I interview and the stories that I share is that they are proud of what's out there.
00:08:59 Diana: Should they see it on Facebook or should their families or future colleagues or whoever see that story, that it's gonna be something that's empowering for them, that it's something that they're going to be, you know, proud that they shared. And that also that they know the impact that it has for that nonprofit, right? Cause now it's like, okay, now you're turning around and providing a service to this nonprofit instead of being the one receiving the service.
00:09:25 Diana: So like for me, it's all the experience, right? The experience from start to finish, like I want you to feel really good about what we're doing, even though we might be talking about some of the most difficult situations in your life.
00:09:38 Maria: I feel like a lot of fundraisers, they tend to shy away from something like ethical storytelling because they see it as, you know, I'm not using emotional enough language to get donations. How can I engage people to give if I'm not exploiting the storytelling? And they wonder where your thoughts are on that. Do you have to exploit storytelling to raise money, to engage people, or have you found a different alternative?
00:10:14 Diana: I think that's a really great question because especially if you haven't been exposed to this or if you haven't gone through the pain of it like I went through, one, it takes more time to tell stories ethically because you have to spend more time with your clients. You have to do more research and prep work and follow up even. And yeah, a lot of you know, there's a lot of what what people call poverty porn out there and things where it's like, you show something to someone a photo or if you tell a story where it's like you want people to like break out in tears and make them feel so bad that they give. But the way I like to think about it is that if you're showing the transformation, that is enough to get people involved, right? If you show people your work, right? We took this person who was in X situation, we helped them through X, Y, Z service, and then this is the transformation that they make.
00:11:16 Diana: I wouldn't tell it from that perspective, I'd tell it from the client's perspective, but I'd say that that's enough. And the other thing is too, right? A lot of organizations have these values around honesty or authenticity or diversity, equity, inclusion, like all of these different values. But the one, I think, area of nonprofits where those values don't always show up and should is in the communications and development side of things. And I think that ethical storytelling is an awesome entry point into that.
00:11:52 Maria: I don't know if you know this, but there's actually been so much research on the difference and the feelings that you evoke in people and how long they actually stay as a donor. So if you remember those old world vision commercials where there's kids who are obviously in horrible situations and just being recorded instead of helped, that type of imagery and that type of feeling like guilt and just horribleness, sick. Or actually, yes, get the gift, but long term, those donors have a higher attrition rate than donors who are empowered.
00:12:35 Maria: So if you see a lot of international development storytelling now is all about, look at the difference, look how happy this kid is, like, we're making such a change. And that will actually retain that donor for much longer. And you still get the first initial gift. So it's really interesting that the best practices of our sector are still having trouble catching up to the research that some huge organizations are already implementing.
00:13:05 Diana: Yeah, well, yeah, I love that you bring that up because yeah, it's brain science, right? We wanna come back for the hits of dopamine and we get the dopamine when we have the smiles and when we think like, oh, we can help bring smiles to other people. It feels really good, yes. Actually making people feel good is gonna help the bottom line more than making people feel bad, which is, you know, yeah, tell the story of like the transformation. It doesn't mean that you have to shy away from the difficult portions of someone's story, the difficult, the challenges, but I like to let them dictate how much of that we get to see, right?
00:13:41 Diana: Because I'm not in it to re-traumatize someone or make them look back on like their worst days. No, I want to know what you did with someone's service. What you did with those after school programs that you took, how that changed you. How you took what you learned and did something with it. Make that like it's their story and you get to be the catalyst. You get to be part of it in this way or that way. Either as the organization, as a nonprofit, or as the donor. But to make sure that that service is around for people. And so yeah, I definitely think, you know, happy story, happy storytelling, transformational storytelling is definitely a much more lucrative and much more rewarding way of storytelling.
00:14:37 Maria: And it's kind of funny because ethical storytelling and non-ethical storytelling have the same aspects of a good story. So good, the good story is what sells someone on it, right? But you have the problem, solution, result, and impact of your cause. But non-ethical focuses more strongly on the problem and ethical is more about the result and the impact. So I've always found that really interesting. And it's wild because we're using psychology in both situations, but we're doing it in a way that is a disservice to our community in the first one.
00:15:19 Diana: Yeah, you know, it's interesting because there are definitely multiple schools of thought on this. One of them is that, you know, you don't want to provide the transformation or give the end result because it doesn't make space for the donor. But I definitely think that there's ways around that. Because at the end of the day, I mean, this might just be my perspective from having been someone who's received services in my life, growing up and things like that, but no one was there actually holding my hand and making things different for me. My parents were out here looking for services, signing up for services, doing all of the steps and doing the things that it actually takes.
00:16:06 Maria: And yes, are there people who contribute to that and make it possible and make it available? And is that important? Absolutely. But at the end of the day, the only person that can change their own life is that person. So why not give them the space to share that?
00:16:23 Maria: I know. I find the hero narrative almost a little bit insulting because it also ignores all the systemic issues that people have to face, like extreme poverty or disability or whatever. It just places the organization as like, we did it. Their life has changed forever and it's just not the case having this savior-ish, martyr-ish narrative about organization. But I also wanted to get your thoughts on the possible power dynamics between an organization and a service user. Because I liked how you said earlier, like now it's a service user providing that service back to the nonprofit. So that's really interesting. And I'd love to hear a little bit more about that.
00:17:09 Diana: Yeah, so there's definitely a lot of dynamic power dynamics when you ask someone to share their story. Let's take my example, for instance, like I had all the power to publish these people's stories, these young women's stories. I didn't ask them for permission. I assumed I had it. I assumed I had the power to tell their stories. The way that I taught, that I practice ethical storytelling and informed consent conversations is to put the power back in their hands.
00:17:41 Diana: So what that means is that, you know, I prepare before I even approach someone for a story, like, what am I going to do with that story? Where am I going to publish it? For how long am I going to publish it? And I make sure that I have that information ready so that when I talk to the client or when I talk to their… like their program manager, for instance, or their case manager, that I can tell them exactly what they're going to get into before they've even agreed.
00:18:12 Diana: And then when I actually talk to them, I remind them, these are all the different places that I'm going to publish your story. And then I remind them that once something is out there, it's out there. You cannot take it back. Even though you can take down posts, even though you can take down stuff off a website, especially with social media or emails where it's a lot of times like a one-way exchange that can be shared, that's not gonna... that's not something that I'm gonna be able to pull back. I'll do what I can.
00:18:41 Diana: But once something is out on the internet, especially like it's out there, just like it would be if you were getting interviewed on a television show or something like that. It is just, you know, me and you doing this podcast, it's going to be out there. I can say something wrong or say something, say too much, for instance, and I can't take that back. And so that's something where throughout the process, so the next step in the process then would be to actually do the interview. As long as they've consented to all of those places, or I'll change my plan.
00:19:13 Diana: If somebody says, I don't know what LinkedIn is, like I don't want my story on there, cool. I will publish it on LinkedIn. I don't have to publish it on all of the things, right? And that's the power of the publisher, right? You get to pick and choose where your stories are gonna go. And so then we do the interview and then I write the story and then I say, okay, this is your story, here it is. Is there anything that you wanna add, edit or delete?
00:19:38 Diana: And remember that if you've changed your mind about sharing your story, you don't have to share it at all. You can change your mind right now and that's perfectly fine. No hard feelings. You're not going to stop getting services. You're not going to be shunned or shamed or anything like that. That's perfectly fine. And you don't have to tell me why. Because I don't know what's happening in their lives. Yeah, they're sharing their story with me, but that's not their everyday life. And that's where when you're interviewing someone.
00:20:09 Diana: One of the other steps of informed consent conversations is asking them what's called a stakeholder test. And this is from an article that was published by Save the Children. The author is Nabila Idris. It's called The Practicalities of Informed Consent and Development Photography. And in it, Idris talks about a stakeholder test, which is basically putting what you're publishing about someone into the context of their everyday life.
00:20:36 Diana: So I might say to someone, like if I'm interviewing a young woman, right, and she's probably on Instagram or she's probably on TikTok, I might ask her like, "Hey, we're gonna turn this story into... we're gonna turn like a quote from this story into a reel with your picture and it's gonna go on TikTok. If your friends were to see this, how would you feel about that?" You know, and that's where it's kinda like, "Oh, hmm. How would I feel about that, right? Somebody saying that I've gotten services from this organization and they're gonna see my picture and like, what are they gonna think of me?" I want them to think through all of that because that might change whether or not they are giving me their consent. I've given them their information, so now I could say like, okay, if they say yes, then they have truly been informed and I truly have their consent.
00:21:24 Diana: And then, you know, let's say we publish and everything is good and they come back a year later and they say, you know, "Can you take down my story?" And I say, "Yes, absolutely." Because at the end of the day, it's still their story. And I will take back what I can or the organizations can take back what they can. But I make sure that when we are done with our engagement, if I'm not going to be able to have keep having contact with them, that they have either my information or that in the case of the nonprofit, they should have your information. They should have somebody to contact. They can email you or call you and say, hey, can you take down my story? Right. And again, you don't have to tell us why. You can just say, can you take down my story? And we should say, absolutely. No problem. Right.
00:22:11 Maria: I love that you just gave a high level overview. I wanna dive into the details with you. So let's say I'm a person in-house and we're looking to get stories. Am I a program person or am I a fundraiser? Who would be the most appropriate person to do the interview?
00:22:31 Diana: Both.
00:22:32 Maria: Both?
00:22:34 Diana: I say both depending on the client's situation. I did, as the fundraiser marketing person, I did interviews both with and without the program person who was assigned to that client. And it depended on whether or not the client was comfortable being interviewed by only me, or if they wanted to have a support person, right? It was up to them. But the only way that I knew which was the best option was by working directly with that case manager, that direct service staff, because that was part of the preparation was to talk to them, find out like their background, how they came to the program, and if they considered the client ready to tell their story.
00:23:22 Diana: Have they experienced enough of a transformation? Are they far enough removed from, if they experienced trauma, from that trauma to be able to talk about their story? And so I mean, even before approaching the client, I worked very closely with the staff. So that's why I say it's both and why, you know, when I'm talking about informed consent conversations and ethical storytelling, one of the really cool things about beginning this at an organization and putting this in place as a best practice is that it is really a bridge between communications development and program staff, which are for some reason often at odds.
00:24:08 Diana: But when you do it this way, because you're putting the client's needs first, everyone is putting the client's needs first, then you have something that everyone can get behind. But not just communications and development and program, but also the leadership. And then once you can get the board of directors on board, then you're golden. It's just so much better all around for the organization culture.
00:24:33 Maria: And for the people you're serving.
00:24:36 Diana: Exactly.
00:24:40 Maria: What about if you're supporting an organization, like I'm a staff person at an organization that doesn't have direct access to participants. So for example, I'm a fundraiser who works for UNICEF in Canada, and I don't have access to the families or I'm someone who works at shelter providing services for unhoused people. And yes, maybe they consented at the beginning, but I don't know how to find them again to get them to consent to that final piece. You still try to tell that story or do you skip it and find someone else to interview? Or how does that look like?
00:25:21 Diana: I definitely would err on the side of the more recent that your consent is that the consent that you've received has been better, right? I wouldn't grab a story from two years ago. I wouldn't grab a story from five years ago, even though I have done that in the past, right? I'm sure lots of people do that because it takes time to find and write and tell a new story. But I wouldn't do it now. And it's for that reason of when did this person give consent? And if you're the development person or the marketer, the communications person and you don't have direct access, then what kind of informed consent training or ethical storytelling training is the program staff getting, right?
00:26:10 Diana: Like how do they get a story? And that might be a question worth asking. Doing ethical storytelling is not an easy process because you really do have to work with a lot of people. And I think that that's kind of a barrier into doing things a certain way, right? Into making the process more ethical. But it's so worth it. It's so, so worth it. I mean, I spent roughly 3 years before the whole process was smooth. But what I'm really grateful for now is like, okay, now I've done it, now I can teach other people to do it.
00:26:51 Diana: And you really just need that one other person that's in a different role from you to say, like, hey, let's kind of take up this flag and do this thing and bring this change to the organization so that we can serve our clients better. So, again, if you don't have that direct connection with the client, then what kind of training or what kind of... How much do the program staff know about ethical storytelling and how can you help them get there? Or vice versa, it can even be vice versa because a lot of program staff are very much aware of, like, the potential ramifications of telling someone's story without their permission, right?
00:27:39 Diana: Or of writing about somebody in a way that completely misrepresents them. And oftentimes a lot of that's where the friction comes from because they've seen the organization tell stories about people that are inaccurate or even offensive. So, you know, you got to embrace roles and functions in the organizations that are different than you coming from a communications development perspective.
00:28:07 Maria: I think people don't understand how much impact this could have on someone's life, to have their story shared. So, you know, great power, great responsibility. I actually put together a guide on 10 questions that people can ask to do dignified storytelling. And I'd love to go over some of that with you, because I have like my examples of bad questions and then we can talk about some good questions. Does that sound good?
00:28:33 Diana: Yeah, let's do it.
00:28:35 Maria: Okay, so I have my bad questions like, what was it like being in jail? How did it feel not having food to feed yourself? What would you say to people who think that being poor or in house is a personal failure? What do you think about those? And why do you think they're bad questions?
00:28:51 Diana: Oh, my stomach kind of churned a little bit. Well, I hope nobody is leading with those questions to begin with. But for one thing, like you have to realize, you know, going back to the power dynamics of things. If you're interviewing someone and asking these questions, they probably never met you before. So similarly, I have this informed consent conversations guide, part of the beginning part is like when you actually go to interview someone, please introduce yourself. Who are you? Why did you come to the organization? Take some of that pressure off of the person.
00:29:31 Diana: Tell them why you care about the organization. If you have a story that you're willing to share, share it. Do you know what I mean? Create that rapport with someone before you get into the nitty gritty details of their lives. But also it's just kind of like, it's so in your face to say like, how did it feel being in jail, right? Instead of like, tell me about yourself. Do you know what I mean? Where I can pick and choose and it's very open-ended, what I can... what I want to say. Because the thing is, if you're eliciting somebody talking about their experience in jail or something like that, they know why they're there.
00:30:08 Diana: They know why you're interviewing them to tell a story about whatever brought them to your nonprofit. It's going to come out, but let it come out in the way that they feel is best. Don't poke and prod to get that kind of provocative quote or whatever it is that you're looking for, right? Let someone be the owner of their story. Let them tell it in their own way. I mean, another question might be how did you come to this organization? What made you decide to work with them? You know what I mean? It's gonna come up. If you're working with, I don't know, youth that have been in the juvenile detention system, it's gonna come up, right? You don't have to like drive it, drive it that way.
00:31:02 Maria: I think some people might feel like, well, if it's going to come up, then why can't I ask directly? And it's because it's so re-traumatizing and it's so dehumanizing to be approached in that way.
00:31:15 Diana: Right, exactly. Because it makes, it's like, okay, you are this one piece. This is the one piece of your story and that makes you you, but that's not the truth, right? Like that's one tiny aspect of their life. And exactly to your point, you don't want to re-traumatize them by is essentially propagating the stigma of you've been in jail. You know, what got you in there? That sort of a thing. So definitely we don't want to re-traumatize. So be careful with questions that you ask.
00:31:55 Maria: Yeah. It's like, how would you like to be asked about some of the most difficult times in your life?
00:32:00 Diana: Mm hmm. Exactly. Do you know, I do, I speak on ethical storytelling and one of the things that I like to do with folks is put them in that same position of being asked, tell me about one of the worst days of your life, for instance. And debriefing on what does that feel like? Because that's essentially what we're doing to, you know, the beneficiaries of our nonprofits when we tell their stories in that way. And that opens up just such a huge perspective, right? Cause if you try to put yourself in that place, not in their shoes, no, because you can't be in their shoes, but in the experience of talking about some of the most difficult aspects of your life. I mean, it's like, "Oh, get it."
00:32:49 Maria: To a stranger too, that must be so eye opening.
00:32:52 Diana: To a stranger too, exactly. Because yeah, you might introduce yourself, but you're still a stranger. You're still a stranger, so yeah. And everybody who's gonna see it is going to be a stranger, right? Well, that don't know you people that will likely have judgments because we all do, people that have biases and all of that.
00:33:15 Maria: So we've talked a little bit about what makes something a bad question and a little bit about what makes it a good question. So open-ended, they get to share as much as they like about themselves. Are there any other signs of good questions?
00:33:31 Diana: You know, from a marketing communications perspective because the goal, our goal in telling people stories is that people get to know the organizations, the services that they provide, the impact that they have. And then to be able to raise money, right? Like, to be able to get the dollars to keep the program going. So there's this delegate balance that you need to have when someone tells their story that, you know, part of that story is the organization, their experience with the organization. And so I think a good question to ask if it doesn't come up is like, how has this organization helped you? What did you, or what did you do with the services that you received?
00:34:27 Diana: And the more specific you can be, the better. Like if someone, for instance, did an afterschool program in computers, how did that change things for you? And then that way you make sure that you have your organization as part of their journey or the services that you provide as part of their journey. Another awesome way to ask something like that too is like, tell me about your relationship with the people here, right? Because that's even... Every time I interviewed someone, they always mentioned their case manager. They always mentioned a person because at the end of the day, what we're doing is for people, through people. And so that's also a wonderful question to ask. And that's going to bring up some really good and positive feelings for the beneficiary as well.
00:35:23 Maria: I love that. Something that I've tried to do in my own storytelling that I'd love to get your insight on is humanize the person outside of this horrible thing that they've experienced or outside of the organization or whatever service they got from us, even if it wasn't horrible. For example, recently in a story I was writing about someone who is facing housing precarity and how they are really proud of that they've stopped smoking after 14 years of being a smoker, they recently stopped. They're also a dad. And how that also contributes to their overall life story. It's not just about them being unhoused or precariously housed or going through whichever issue they're going through, but it's also about their full holistic self. I wonder, is that–
00:36:22 Diana: You know what? I love them.
00:36:25 Maria: Go ahead.
00:36:27 Diana: Go ahead, finish your question.
00:36:29 Maria: Oh, I was gonna say, is that something that people should be prioritizing? Is that important at all? If so, why, why or why not?
00:36:40 Diana: Absolutely. One of the things that your question brings up is people often ask, how do you bridge the gap of experience between the clients that are the beneficiaries of your nonprofit and the donors who may not have that lived experience? And this is exactly how you do that. Because at the end of the day, we are all human. We have things that we're proud of. We have things that matter to us. And if, you know, somebody says, one of the things that I would like to ask is like, what are you most proud of, right?
00:37:20 Diana: Some people would say their families, some people would say being a mom, it's often not going to have anything to do with your organization. But what that does is make them a whole person with wants and needs and desires and accomplishments. And that is so relatable. And that's how you bridge the gap. Somebody doesn't have to experience poverty to get what it's like to be a human who wants, you know, to provide for their family. Who wants their kids to go to school, for instance.
00:37:51 Diana: One of the other questions that I always like to ask is how would your friends describe you? Because I would always get these really, you know. Either like, oh gosh, I don't know, I've never thought about that. Or how does your family describe you? Because it kind of gets them out of that, I'll have to talk about myself. And it's like, oh, what would your best friend say about you? And just to give them that, I don't know exactly what to call it, but just that extra support of, you're not alone and you do have people, let's bring them into this conversation somehow.
00:38:31 Diana: And, you know, a lot of times I would make it into my story as like, you know, so-and-so's friends would describe her, so-and-so's mom would describe her as. And just to make that just a really just nice, fun, friendly question, like asking friendly questions is encouraged. Definitely ask friendly questions, things that, again, are relatable outside of whatever services you're providing that are like you said humanizing.
00:39:03 Maria: I'm obsessed with that question. I'm gonna steal it. Yeah, what would you like? I love that. I think that could really help open people up and think about themselves in a different way in relation to the organization as well. So cute. It has been lovely getting to hear your perspective and your insight on ethical storytelling and just, you know, and how we treat our service users in general, I think that's something that's very often overlooked. Where can people connect with you to learn more?
00:39:43 Diana: Oh, please connect with me over on LinkedIn. You can find me at Diana Farias Heinrich. My last name is H-E-I-N-R-I-C-H. Or you can connect with me through my website, habramarketing.com, H-A-B-R-A, marketing.com. And yeah, feel free to reach out. I love it when people connect with me and ask me stuff about ethical storytelling or marketing or communications or things like that, because it's something that I love to talk about. So I'm here to help and be your cheerleader if you decide to take up this flag.
00:40:17 Maria: And we'll have that all linked in the show notes down below. Thank you again for joining us. It was great having you.
00:40:28 Maria: Thank you for listening to another episode of The Small Nonprofit. If you want to continue the conversation, feel free to connect with our guests directly or find me on LinkedIn. Let's keep moving money to mission and prioritizing our well-being. Bye for now.
