Generations of Giving: A Mother-Daughter Dialogue on Board Service & Fundraising with Suzy Wilcox and Martha Schwieters
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Curious about balancing experience and fresh ideas on your nonprofit board? Seeking ways to keep fundraising events engaging in the digital age? Join a candid conversation with a mother-daughter duo as they share their diverse experiences and perspectives on board service, fundraising, and community engagement.
In this episode of The Small Nonprofit, Maria Rio sits down with Suzy Wilcox, Director of Development at Evergreen, and her mother, Martha Schwieters, an active donor and experienced board member. They delve into the generational divide in board service, the importance of community-centered fundraising, and the evolving landscape of philanthropic events. Suzy and Martha also share personal anecdotes and insights from their unique journeys in the nonprofit sector.
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Key Episode Highlights:
Balancing Experience and Fresh Ideas: Board diversity is crucial for nonprofit success. Encourage a mix of experienced members and newcomers to foster innovation and avoid stagnation. Consider implementing term limits and actively recruiting new members with diverse skills and backgrounds.
Community-Centric Fundraising: Prioritize building relationships and community engagement over transactional fundraising tactics. Focus on creating warm, welcoming events that foster connection and showcase the impact of your organization's work.
Generational Perspectives: Acknowledge and bridge the generational divide in board service. Encourage open communication and respect for diverse perspectives, fostering a collaborative environment where both experience and fresh ideas are valued.
Adaptive Fundraising Strategies: Embrace the digital age while maintaining a human touch. Experiment with different fundraising approaches, such as hybrid events, personalized appeals, and donor-advised funds, to cater to diverse preferences and maximize your impact.
The Power of Shared Philanthropy: Explore the benefits of shared philanthropy through giving circles or collective impact initiatives. These models can pool resources, amplify impact, and foster a sense of community among donors and organizations alike.
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Watch this episode on Youtube: https://youtu.be/3jYFMOpeRdI
Links and Resources:
Connect with Suzy Wilcox on Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/suzanne-wilcox2019/?originalSubdomain=ca
Check out the Evergreen website: https://www.evergreen.ca/
Connect with Maria on LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/mariario/
Support the show: https://www.buzzsprout.com/208666/supporters/new
Transcript:
00:00:00 Suzy: The generational difference has been interesting too, because my mom is, she doesn't look it, but as an older member, a senior citizen in her golden years, her view of being on boards and thinking, oh my gosh, I shouldn't be on this board anymore. I should probably move off.
00:00:21 Maria: Hi friends. Ever wondered how you could turn your big ideas into results? I'm Maria Rio, your go-to guide for helping small nonprofits have real world impacts. Together, let's reimagine a better sector, tackle systemic issues, and yes, raise some serious cash. Welcome back to The Small Nonprofit, the podcast where your passion meets action.
00:00:48 Maria: Hi, everyone. Welcome back to The Small Nonprofit podcast. I have some interesting guests for you today that I'm really excited for you to connect with. So the first one is Suzy, who is someone that I really wanted to chat about, actually corporate giving, but she had a really good idea. So today we're doing something actually very different for the small nonprofit, we have two guests. So we have Suzy and we have Martha. So I would love for each one of them to introduce themselves and maybe introduce their relationship to each other, to our guests. So I'll start with Suzy. Suzy, tell us a little bit about yourself, how you've come to be in the world that you're at, your story, a nonprofit, and anything else that you'd like to share.
00:01:32 Suzy: Great, hello, good morning. It's Monday morning. Sorry, my voice is off. Hi, I'm Suzy Wilcox. Hello to everybody out there listening to this. My pronouns are she and her, and I'm currently the director of development or fundraising at Evergreen. It's called Environmental Charity based in Toronto. You probably know us for Evergreen Brickworks if you are in Toronto or Ontario, but we do a lot more than that, focused on the power of public spaces.
00:01:55 Suzy: And unlike some of your guests, a lot of your guests that I've heard, they sort of have fallen into the nonprofit world. I've pretty much been in it from the beginning and it's been an important part of who I am. And I'm on here today where Mother's Day is coming up with my mom, Martha Schwieters, and she'll talk about all of herself in just a few minutes.
00:02:14 Suzy: But ever since I was little, I was exposed to the arts and we had a variety of experiences, everything from going to the ballet or art exhibits or putting on our own talent shows. So we went on summer vacation. So arts and culture has always been part of our life. And so it became part of my career. So I've had a variety of experiences, everything from working in some arts organizations in the US like Washington Performing Arts Society and the American Dance Festival to then working at a sponsorship agency that sort of brought together business and culture in Toronto, arts and communications, and then moving into the corporate side, doing corporate funding at Air Canada for a few years.
00:02:50 Suzy: And then when I had young children doing consulting for over a decade with NetGain partners, and then moving into a full-time role of fundraising at Evergreen. So kind of been all around all sides of the table. I'm also an active donor as well as a fundraiser. So that's a little bit about me. Over to you, mom.
00:03:06 Martha: Okay, yes, when Suzy was quite young, I was very involved with the arts. I was trying very hard to become a good ballet teacher. And I was taking ballet class every day and teaching ballet. We were across town and we had three children, so life was busy. And somebody asked me to be on the board of the ballet school where I was studying. And I didn't want to, I didn't really think I had time. I was also teaching.
00:03:33 Martha: And I thought, I don't have time for this, but they said, okay, you have to do it. So I did it. And I went to one meeting and they said, well, now you have to be president. This was a very small organization. And I was the only person who voted against myself. So I did vote against myself, but I became president and I discovered within a year that there was a huge problem with this organization. And because of this huge problem, I felt I had to resign and leave the organization, it was very, very painful.
00:04:09 Martha: Suzy was probably eight at the time and she probably remembers that. But as a result of this, I felt I need to know more about the arts field because obviously I'm gonna get thrust into this situation again. And so I went and got a graduate degree, but in dance, but I really focused on how does it happen? I mean, how can it be supported in our society? And I found out a few things there. And so I've been involved in the arts ever since we moved from the suburbs of Washington to Annapolis, not very far, but far enough for me to have to break a lot of ties that I had.
00:04:50 Martha: And in my new community, I didn't want to teach ballet because there were too many people teaching. And I would have made a whole bunch of enemies. So I decided I would do other things. I did, I learned how to do 17th and 18th century for old dance, which is extremely useful. But I said, old dance is for old dance. But I did that. But I also joined a lot of organizations. And I kept jumping into problems. So I had to kind of sort things out for myself.
00:05:27 Martha: And one of the last organizations I joined, although I've been a member now for 16 years, was something called the Anne Arundel Giving Together. I joined this organization actually to promote a theater group that I was affiliated with. I had an ulterior motive, but I really became enchanted with this mission of shared philanthropy. The mission of the organization is to improve the standard of living for women and families living in our county which is a rather broad mission.
00:06:06 Martha: But it was a young organization at the time. I got involved first, believe it or not, with a governance committee, because I'd done a little bit of governance work with other organizations. Nobody wants to do that. So I did that, and I got involved with a follow-up to the grants process, which is called post-permanence. I did that. And then I got involved with the grants committee, which is actually helping to choose the organizations from which our members vote on who is going to be funded.
00:06:36 Martha: Like this year we had 50 applications and currently there are 13 organizations on the ballot. So we had to little down quite a bit and our members vote which one. And I tell them don't worry about it because the grants committee has worked so hard. You can't make a mistake. The only mistake you can make is against yourself by not voting. That's the only mistake you can make. And you can make so much about the community just by reading the applications and going to the website and learning about the organization. So that's kind of where I am now with [inaudible].
00:07:16 Suzy: And so she's being modest. She's also been involved or maybe currently on the boards of a major dance company in Washington, DC, as well as the major national symphony orchestra. She's been involved there. So she has a very interesting blend of the hyper local and the regional and even national organizations. So interesting experience across all those levels.
00:07:38 Martha: And my latest involvement with the Giving Circle is on the membership committee, where a lot of us who've been around tend to, if we really like the organization, we show up because that's the way you can reach out to new members and mentor them and bring them along in the organization. And also you can ask people when it's time for them to renew. What they'd like to change in the organization, and you pass the information along anonymously, unless the people want you to use their name. And it's a good thing to do. I enjoy that.
00:08:11 Maria: Nice, I love how you both touched on your personal stories coming into philanthropy. So, Suzy, you came into it on purpose. Martha, you got invited to be president of the board after your first meeting. Which is a little bit surprising and shocking.
00:08:28 Martha: Yeah, and then it's
00:08:29 Maria: Oh, yeah. And I'm just wondering how you two have communicated about philanthropy with each other and fundraising and boards. Has that changed over the years? Has that always been constant? What does that look like between the two of you?
00:08:46 Suzy: Well, I mean, as my mom said, I was pretty young when it first happened. And I wasn't really aware it was always this thing that was happening. I do remember having and I don't know if this is the board, mom, but there's a valley, the MAP Maryland Academy is that?
00:09:00 Martha: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:09:00 Suzy: I remember having--
00:09:02 Martha: Metropolitan.
00:09:02 Suzy: Metropolitan, yes. They have big problems and they were shut down. That's where I took dance to and I remember having a button. There were a button, Mad About Ballet, Metropolitan Academy of Dance, Mad For Ballet or something. So sort of early activism, I guess. So that was happening around. And I would say my father has also been involved with boards, with charitable boards, a variety of charitable boards as well.
So we would talk about it at the dinner table for sure. It's a topic of conversation.
00:09:27 Suzy: And then as I grew in my career and in my learning, yeah, my mom and I would talk about different situations. And I would say right now, my mom is a donor to Evergreen. Thank you. And she is an avid reader and critic, which I completely appreciate of our work, of our messaging. And it is really helpful to have for me that outside eye giving feedback. Yeah. And so now we're sounding boards for each other and shoulders to cry on and all of that.
00:09:57 Martha: Yes, there are a lot of those moments. Although I have learned if you don't like something, but you're really in tune with the mission, say something politely, diplomatically, but wait a while and it usually changes.
00:10:17 Suzy: And it's also the generational difference has been interesting too, because my mom is, she doesn't look it, but as an older member, a senior citizen in her golden years, her view of being on boards and thinking, oh my gosh, I shouldn't be on this board anymore. I should probably move off. And me at my stage thinking, why can't they see this? Not that my mom's not great, but yes, she's right, but she shouldn't have to say this. They should see this, right?
00:10:44 Martha: Well, it's an awkward situation because many people don't want to admit their identity is being on this board. And that's a problem that I think, and I really don't wanna be in that ever.
00:11:00 Maria: I love to hear more about what you mean by that. Are they doing a lot of active stuff on the board or are they just kind of see it as passively part of their identity or very active part of their identity?
00:11:10 Martha: I think, I guess you have to be getting along in years to kind of understand this, but as people have less energy and can keep up with world affairs less and less, but they say, oh, but I'm on this board of directors. And that makes me important. And many of them still give money in that. But I can see in some cases that it's a tremendous burden for the staff to try to bring these people along so the organization can be brought along and to facilitate communication between the younger members who have visions and the older members who have some experience. I can see that it can be really make the job very difficult for people in Suzy's position. So I'm very conscious of that. I can see that it can be really make the job very difficult for people in Suzy's position. So I'm very conscious of that.
00:12:05 Suzy: I remember, it's funny, I was thinking this weekend, I was remembering a person, our children were in a choir together and we were carpooling down to some performance together and I was asked, and I don't, they didn't know her very well, but she was an up and coming in the finance industry in Toronto. And I remember we were driving by a hospital, she's like, Oh yeah, that's the board I want to be on. I'm going to get on that board. And I went, Oh, are you really interested in whatever that they do? And she said, oh, no, no, no, that's the one for status. That's the one that's good for my career. And I mean, she admitted it, but I thought, oh, geez, okay. Well, I hope you raise a lot of money for them. The one year you're on it.
00:12:40 Martha: Yeah, but I mean, the bit about common sense. I mean, if you're an aging member of the board, I think it really behooves you to mention a common sense approach very gently every now and then. And this is a larger board. A very ambitious campaign was envisioned. And in the middle of this, the artistic director decided to move on. The campaign had really nothing, it was really about buildings and property. Nothing to do really with the artistic product except having a nice place to prepare everything.
00:13:20 Martha: And the new artistic director was chosen after much deliberation and I was not on that committee to choose him. But of course we all had a chance to have him put in and that was good. New artistic director came in and said, you know what? That campaign is entirely too ambitious for us right now. He slashed the goal by 75%. And he said, this is an artistic innovation campaign. It is something that we can achieve. That was common sense and that was somebody brand new.
00:13:58 Martha: But I will tell you as an aging member of the board, I could not have agreed with him. I was kind of keeping my mouth shut because I thought, oh, these younger people, they have lots of ties and everything. Although I did notice that they weren't bringing in the money or the new people very much, but they thought this was important sounding. And it's common sense. When you can no longer see common sense or if you're just on the board to have a position, I think it's time to step up.
00:14:30 Suzy: It's dangerous and I think a lot of the small nonprofits that are listening today, your story is really refreshing, Mom, and in my experience seems to be a bit rare, this idea of maybe we should scale back a little bit. Rather than everybody's like bigger, more, shiny or new, this person came in and said, well, hang on a second. Let's again center ourselves on our values, our mission, artistic excellence, innovation in our field before we start building kingdoms.
00:15:01 Suzy: And I was really inspired by that story. And I hope it's a sign of great things to come for that organization and starting on a more solid foundation. Because I do feel we're just like building and like trying to one up each other and we have to have a capital campaign and they have a capital campaign and they have this many staff, right?
00:15:18 Martha: I mean, it's not against capital campaigns. I know it's a good way to accomplish something, but be pretty sure that what you want to accomplish is definitely worthwhile and achievable.
00:15:29 Suzy: Yeah, exactly.
00:15:31 Martha: One thing Suzy and I have disagreed about.
00:15:36 Suzy: Just one thing. Just one thing.
00:15:38 Martha: Just one thing. And this is still unresolved and she has her opinion and I have mine. And that is the business of when somebody donates money. Usually nowadays it's credit card or PayPal or whatever. But will you not cover our credit card fees? I just have that added in. And in order to not do that, you have to take an action and erase that from the screen. I absolutely resent that.
00:16:07 Martha: I think it makes the donor who approached the project feel it was a generous spirit. Feel very stingy by saying, oh, but I promised to give a thousand dollars and now I'm being asked to give 1250 or something. And that's, I think that's inconsiderate. I think actually it was small to medium sized organization because the kinds of donors that you are hoping to attract are the donors that have carefully calculated how much they can afford. And I do worry about it. And Suzy has her own opinion.
00:16:45 Suzy: Well, I see it as an opportunity, an invitation, if somebody wants to. I am agnostic. I don't think, oh gosh, why did Martha Schwieters not cover darn her? She didn't cover the credit card fees. However, if somebody wants to help us a little bit more, that's great. If they don't, that's also okay. I think it's just another opportunity or way of helping. I think it's also is, I think I've seen sort of younger donors. I don't know what the stats are on this. Maria, maybe you know across the industry, is it generally younger donors who tend to like chip in, I'm not sure.
00:17:17 Maria: It's definitely most people cover it.
00:17:20 Suzy: Yeah, I think that's what we're seeing at Evergreen is most people cover it. I haven't heard that it has dissuaded donations, which would concern me, but I have heard concerns about it and it's valid. I think we have ours turned on automatically and you have to uncheck it. So maybe we should experiment with not making it automatic. We did just have a renewal of a major donor and they chose not to cover the fees and I wanted to have a conversation with them as well about this. So yes, we disagree on that.
00:17:50 Maria: I think it's so interesting to like have these conversations because then you get to see how different generations different backgrounds think about things because maybe it's totally fine for one part of your community, but maybe it's not speaking to your whole community, which you probably wanted to you want everyone to feel like they belong at your organization.
00:18:10 Suzy: Exactly. Yeah. And actually, my mom was telling me about a gala that she went to recently. We don't do galas at Evergreen. It's a choice we make and I'm not downplaying them. I think they have a role to play in other organizations and I know they bring in tons of money. And I'm just a little bit jealous of that. But I know they're also a lot of work, particularly on staff. But my mom was talking about this paddle racing tradition. Are you aware of this, Maria?
00:18:33 Maria: Like an auction kind of paddle racing?
00:18:36 Suzy: But it's just purely money. You raise your paddle and how much are you going to give? Mom, maybe you can explain a little bit of it. I don't know if this is happening in Canada. Maybe I'm just out of the loop.
00:18:46 Martha: No, maybe it's not. Well, in the last week, pandemic is over here. My husband and I went to three different fundraisers. And you blow up past 10 days. Three different fundraisers. The first one was for a large organization. It was Black Tie. And it was very elegant. It was held in a building museum in Washington. There were probably 500 people there. And then actually the paddle raising was introduced with kind of an audience participation event that was very funny.
00:19:18 Martha: That was the easy part. It morphed into the paddle raising with an auctioneer kind of person. I know asking, starting out asking for $10,000 and then going down to, I don't know if anybody, of course, people who have already bought tables have already spent $10,000.
and upwards. And of course we have invited people to sit at our tables. I am really bad, I guess. I tell my guests this is going to happen and I do not want you to feel pressured. I go and powder my nose. So they don't know. And if they participated they're very happy and they tell me usually. If they didn't, I don't care. I invited them because I like them. And I like the organization, except for the ball.
00:20:08 Martha: Okay. The second one was much more casual. It was for a... I would say a medium sized charity that serves underprivileged kids. And there was an auction there, a silent auction that had some very nice items in it that would have been interesting for a couple of them would have been really interesting for a live auction, but there wasn't a live auction. And the silent auction was entirely digital. Entirely. So if you're like me and you change your purse before you go to this and you forget your phone, you can't do anything. Which was too bad to me because I guess of all my experience of walking around silent auction tables and commenting on things, it was really kind of grim.
00:20:55 Martha: Of course, this is all put out online ahead of time. These days I don't read about silent auctions, read about other things. So anyway, then they went into the paddle race. And it was very interesting. They didn't raise as much as they thought they were. And they were smart enough to say, okay, we've spent enough time on this. There was an organization that was promising a certain amount if they raise their ball, the organization represented from the organization said that's fine. We'll contribute that much anyway. And so that was it.
00:21:32 Martha: The third one was entirely digital. Auction was entirely digital. And it was big, 400, 500 people there. And the paddle raising was introduced by a heads and tails. If you're familiar with that, people have to pay to play heads and tails. And the MC flips a coin and people sit down. There's a winner. And that's kind of audience partnership. But you have to pay to do this. You have to pay $100 to do that. Okay. So then from that, we went into the paddle racing, which went on and on. And it was a big corporate time. It was a lot. It went on too long.
00:22:17 Martha: And we went on during dinner, all of this fundraising during dinner. So there wasn't any dinner break or you could talk with people at your table. So. But the good news is it was over by quarter of an hour.
[inaudible] was over. Oh, you can dance to music that is too loud. But it was over for people like my husband and me by quarter of a month. That was good. So three different iterations.
00:22:41 Suzy: I mean, it's very interesting, these events, right? In the nonprofit world, they're fraught, they're seen by I think many boards as the golden ticket. It's gonna raise lots of money. But here are three very different examples. What these say to me is they're not really community building, right? First of all, they're not, they're exclusive in many, many ways and not inviting. Here's my mom and dad who are guests and they felt put off at the event by all the digital aspects to it.
00:23:07 Suzy: That's fine for some guests, but it's clearly not thinking about everybody. They want the status and they raise their hand saying, I can give $10,000 in front of this whole group of 500 people in the middle of Washington, DC. What a power play. It's not the fundraising that I love, but we all need to raise money. I get it. There's financial realities. And so I hope they met their goals. I hope that they-
00:23:31 Martha: Oh, I think they did, they did.
00:23:32 Suzy: I hope they brought in donors who care and wanna stay with them. I don't know. I don't know. Maria--
00:23:40 Maria: It sounds very transactional for sure.
00:23:42 Martha: Yeah, yeah, it is. And because my husband and I have had to go to these events for years and years, it seems like to us, it seems very cold. I mean, I can remember going to benefits for smaller groups. And actually, I did join the board of the one many years ago. It was a school for kids with learning disabilities. That was lots of fun. You saw people you knew. There was a live auction with some really interesting items with some art that the kids had made. And it was a lot of work for the staff to do this. But it was a very warm event, but totally different. And it's post pandemic, it's digital age, and here we are.
00:24:29 Suzy: Yeah, I would be really curious about retention rates on those paddle raises. Well, first of all, do people actually fulfill their pledges?
00:24:36 Martha: Well, oh, you are asked when you check in, will you give your credit card when you check in? And your number on your paddle is queued for that.
00:24:47 Maria: Oh, wow.
00:24:50 Suzy: It is completely transactional.
00:24:52 Maria: I like that element of warmth that you mentioned earlier, because I just feel like I like events that build community, like I really do. So yes, you can have some transactional elements, but if you're overall building community, I think that that's really nice. I feel like many events are just so transactional, but people go to the event and don't even know what the organization does.
00:25:16 Martha: Exactly.
00:25:17 Maria: So upsetting.
00:25:18 Suzy: Yes.
00:25:19 Martha: You're right. And with performing arts organizations, the more they showcase the art, which one of the three did very well. The actual art, they did that. So you got a view of that. With the one that didn't, the smaller organization that didn't make its goal, the kids who are benefiting from this, some of them actually spoke and that was good. And you had people, yes, there were some very good testimonies about the value of what they do, but they could have stepped up on the warmth.
00:25:56 Suzy: Yeah, so I mean, I think message to fellow fundraisers out there, like center the warmth, center the community. It's not about the digital bells and whistles necessarily, although I get that that can expand your reach, which is really important. But remember, it's people coming to this event and it's people who want to spend time with you and learn more about you and spend time with their friends who they've brought in. So leave room for that.
00:26:18 Martha: Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's important. Very important.
00:26:23 Maria: Yes, yes.
00:26:24 SMartha: I think Evergreen is doing a very good job. Of course I'm a little biased.
00:26:28 Maria: You're doing great.
00:26:31 Martha: I'm a little biased.
00:26:33 Suzy: We try to have fun.
00:26:34 Maria: There was this fundraiser that I heard about a couple of years ago where, I don't know if you'll like this, but I think it's kind of in the same vein somehow. But what they had was they had James Corden and it's like, oh, sing in the car with James Corden and the first five people who do it have to pay $10,000 each song.
00:26:52 Martha: Oh my gosh.
00:26:54 Maria: Yeah. Then he made a way through. He's like, I'll do as many as you all can do as the audience. But I think it was for a Jewish organization. But what does that say about your organization? Does it build any engagement for them? I love the idea. I think it's really, really fun. But is it appropriate for a fundraising event where you're trying to build deeper engagement? Or maybe that's not the goal. Maybe the goal is just introduce James Corden.
00:27:24 Martha: Yeah, yeah.
00:27:26 Suzy: Well, and I want to get back to a little bit talking about community building and maybe in different ways outside of events, because not everybody can do events and tying back to our discussion about boards. So my mom is on two, as I mentioned, Washington DC organization boards, their arts boards, and it's a... For her, it's about the interconnection between the two of them and bringing them together. And it's looking for board members who are truly committed to your community and maybe have some different ways of approaching.
00:27:54 Suzy: And again, going back to, as I mentioned before, Mary Ann, the Courageous Communications podcast, really listening to what donors or supporters are interested in and trying to use that to further your work. I don't know, Mom, if you want to talk about that a little bit, your work there.
00:28:10 Martha: Well, what you say reminds me of something, and maybe you've already heard this, about there being three different types of board members and nobody is a pure one or the other. The executive, which really likes things to be organized and neat and you know who's doing what and it's getting done and there's authority there. The next is managerial, which is very concerned with how much money do we have for this and how much time we allocated for that and examining the details of everything.
00:28:48 Martha: And I was listening to this and I was presented it aboard me and I said, well, I don't belong to either one of these, I don't think. And there was this third one, the generative, the people who get the ideas. And so that's mostly what I do, I guess. So at least I heard myself identified and I know if my idea is way off base, then forget it. But I have been able to bring two organizations into a bit closer involvement.
00:29:20 Martha: Not because I'm an important member of either board, I am not. But just by saying, oh hey, did you think about this? And maybe we could do that. And I've had a chance to work with the staff and that has been extremely gratifying. And I hope it helps both organizations and the community.
00:29:38 Suzy: Yeah, it's this idea of like using our positions of influence that we've been able to achieve for a greater good.
00:29:45 Maria: Like Martha, I also have my three categories of board members, but they're completely different. That was really interesting.
00:29:50 Martha: What are yours?
00:29:51 Maria: So mine are, I've always been a fundraiser. I've only been on one board, which I'm still a part of now. But mine are board members are actually helpful, category one, passively harmful, or actually harmful. So like getting in the way because you're just trying to get too into the details or something like that. Or if you're like super wild west kind of person. But yeah, those are my three categories. Do you have some? I'd be interested.
00:30:24 Suzy: I haven't ever thought of terms, but I have some who are, they get it. And I'm like, yes, yes. And those who are just so out of it, like, have you ever read a newsletter? Do you have any idea? And then I guess there's the middle ground, the ones who seem to have really good intentions, but just never seem to be on the same page. And I know you can't have a whole group of people who are all one type, and it does take a mix.
00:30:50 Suzy: We're seeing this year in our organization, we have a number of new board members, which has been really helpful. Speaking again to the earlier point, my mom saying, you know, she's been around for a while, maybe it's time for her to go. And that's hard for staff to say that. Having had some board turnover and getting a little bit stricter on term limits has been really helpful. It's starting to pay off for sure.
00:31:10 Martha: I agree.
00:31:11 Maria: I liked what you said earlier about your mom being on two boards in the same community and how you're looking for people to be on your board who are very committed to the community. Your mom acting as kind of between these two organizations. I think that's really interesting kind of to ask board members, how do you already demonstrate this passion actively? Not just like, Oh, I have conversations with my friends. What more are you doing to actually serve this issue in this community would maybe would help with some of those doesn't get it category.
00:31:43 Suzy: Yeah, and it's going back to the idea that board members is not just financial, the ways that you can give you can bring relationships with communities in a different part of town that we've never had or with a different group of people. And I think that's we do have some of those board members, I'm seeing that and I'm seeing some really interesting... my mom's point about generative, some real generative ideas about ways we could do something differently and some really helpful feedback for us as well.
00:32:08 Martha: A very interesting book about board work that I read many years ago. It's written by a man named John Carver, C-A-R-V-E-R. I do not remember the name. He had a very almost negative, a very minimalistic idea of what boards were good for. And I don't agree with him completely, but it was very good for me to read that because it really puts you where you need to be, how unimportant you are as a board member and what you, the board as a whole is a very important thing. But if any one member starts loitering it, it's not good.
00:32:47 Maria: You know, Stanford Business School, they meant a lot of billionaire CEOs and all these things. And one of their things is you need to consider yourself a leader. So it's, I am here to make your job easier, which is my favorite line to say to people, they totally light up. But I'm here to make your job easier. I want to make this as frictionless as possible. I want you to feel supported. And I feel like some board members that fall into my actively harmful category are usually like, no, I am important. You're here to serve me, clean up my plates.
00:33:19 Maria: I don't know if you've had that experience, but it's like, they just like leave their food there and expect the staff to clean it up. Or they're like, why don't we do this? And why didn't you already do it? Things like that you know in your expertise aren't the most sensible things to do, but they kind of demand that you do.
00:33:34 Suzy: Yes.
00:33:35 Maria: Are there any final thoughts that you'd like to leave our audience with today?
00:33:40 Martha: I guess mine is, it's fun to be involved. And it's fun to be involved in the right way. So you have to look around you and read the room.
00:33:55 Suzy: Yeah, that's good advice. I was letting my mom go first, as her father used to say, RHIP, rank has its privileges. You know, deference to the older ones here. But clearly you can see that my parents have a busier social life than I do. They go to lots of galas
00:34:10 Martha: Well, now this is unusual.
00:34:13 Suzy: But it's great because it does keep them active and socializing, so I think that's actually a wonderful role for these events and something that charities can do to bring us together because we know our society is falling apart and is polarized in so many ways. I hate to say that word because it doesn't mean anything anymore, but I think we talk more about our differences than our similarities and I do think our sector has a role to play in bringing people together in all of our different ways and being open to different people and different ways that we want to enjoy events or we want to engage with online giving.
00:34:46 Suzy: I think just be open to all the different feedback that you're getting and understand your audience. And again, sort of what Mary Ann said, don't try to be everything to everybody. Set your values first and what you're trying to do back to this like mission, the artistic mission that my mom talked about and like, okay, you're gonna scale back and really focus on that first before we start building up castles. Just believe in that.
00:35:08 Maria: I think may take away from this conversation is don't assume that you're being inclusive of your community. So if there's something that... yes, digital sounds great or yes, like this add 3% to my donation sounds great, but it might not be universally loved, right? So actually trying to gather feedback from your community is really, really important in many aspects. So not just events and not just your donation form, but like, I don't know if many organizations are even thinking of gathering feedback for those two things, for example.
00:35:41 Maria: Thank you both for coming and for being wonderful guests of this well non-profit podcast. For anyone listening, we'll have a bunch of links into the show notes so you can connect with Suzy and Martha and ask any of your follow-up questions. And if you would like to see our lovely faces, as always, this will be on YouTube. So you can go and find it there, subscribe. But until next time, that's it for today. Bye for now.
00:36:07 Suzy: Bye. Happy Mother's Day. Thanks, Maria.
00:36:10 Martha: Thank you, Maria.
00:36:14 Maria:Thank you for listening to another episode of The Small Nonprofit. If you want to continue the conversation, feel free to connect with our guests directly or find me on LinkedIn. Let's keep moving money to mission and prioritizing our well-being. Bye for now.
