Understanding Today's Fundraising: Insights with Frank Mumford
Is your nonprofit facing challenges with staff leaving, keeping donors happy, or having competent leaders? This episode of The Small Nonprofit talks about these big issues in the charity world and how they affect your fundraising. We also look at possible ways to fix these problems.
Our guest is Frank Mumford, a seasoned fundraiser with 14 years in the charity sector. Frank started as a student fundraiser and now works at Gravyty, where he helps charities with new software solutions. He's been a CFRE since 2019 and is active in several nonprofit boards. Frank will share his views on the challenges that charities and fundraisers face today.
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Key Episode Highlights:
Focus on Relationship Building Over Asking for Donations: Frank and I stress the importance of authentic relationships with donors, shifting from transactional interactions to genuine connections.
Addressing Staff Turnover: We discuss how staff changes affect donor relationships and explore the benefits of considering candidates from diverse backgrounds for fundraising roles.
Leveraging AI in Fundraising: While AI can enhance donor engagement and streamline tasks, it's not a complete solution. The human touch remains essential.
Promoting Diversity in Leadership: We observe the lack of diversity in philanthropic leadership and advocate for more inclusive representation to better serve diverse communities.
Balancing Work-Life for Fundraisers: Acknowledging the issue of burnout, we discuss the importance of creating a sustainable work environment in nonprofits.
This episode is a must-listen for insights on evolving fundraising strategies, maintaining meaningful donor relationships, and leveraging technology in the nonprofit sector.
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Watch this episode on Youtube: https://youtu.be/X3bmHE-6VpQ?si=CL3ducH4sz2FvnrX
Links and Resources:
Connect with Frank on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/frank-mumford/
Email Frank: frank.mumford@gravyty.com
Connect with Maria on LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/mariario/
Support the show: https://www.buzzsprout.com/208666/supporters/new
Transcript:
00:00:00 Frank: When we start, looking at why, are declining values, so that this individual, back to the story, she said, hey, so you talked about personalization on the webinar, I'm like, absolutely. She goes, well, what if we personalized the automatic reply when someone makes an online gift? I said, no one really reads that. When they get that automatic, it's just like, you've checked out or it's a confirmation, it is not a thank you.
00:00:28 Maria: Hi, friends. Ever wondered how you could turn your big ideas into results? I'm Maria Rio, your go-to guide for helping small nonprofits have real world impacts. Together, let's reimagine a better sector, tackle systemic issues, and yes, raise some serious cash. Welcome back to The Small Nonprofit, the podcast where your passion meets action.
00:01:00 Maria: Hi friends, welcome back to The Small Nonprofit Podcast. I'm your new host, Maria Rio. And today, I am joined by Frank Mumford all the way from St. Paul, Minnesota. Frank, thank you so much for joining us today. I'm super excited for our conversation.
00:01:17 Frank: Me, too. Always a pleasure to get to connect with you.
00:01:21 Maria: So happy. Frank, could you tell our audience a little bit about yourself? Who is Frank? How did he get into what he's doing right now?
00:01:30 Frank: Yeah, I love it. Obviously, I'm Frank Mumford. Grew up in Michigan, have a ton of family in Canada as well. So I always like to share that because I know where you're located at Maria. And I really got my start into the fundraising and nonprofit space in university. I was a student caller. I used to call alumni and ask them for money. And I was one of those weird student callers that actually liked doing it. I found that I enjoyed the connections I was making with the individuals and always enjoyed asking a similar set of questions.
00:02:09 Frank: And then it was such a fun challenge when I would call out to those people of how they could support back and get them excited about what the university was doing and what I was doing as an individual. And so I was a student caller, I raised the most money and I think the record still stands in university history as a student caller. And from there, I was a manager, all that. I ended up in the private sector doing sales, doing some finance stuff and I found my way back to my heart and passion, which was nonprofit work.
00:02:50 Frank: I worked in university fundraising for about a half a decade, and then I worked in human service as well as for a United Way for a greater part of another half of a decade. I transitioned to, instead of working in, I call it working on nonprofits and organizations to help take some of my learnings, some of the data that I see, the trends, all of that, and provide that to, you know, whoever wants to connect and engage with me. And even beyond that, it's always fun to share and meet new people.
00:03:29 Maria: Nice. That's so interesting that you got into fundraising on purpose. Not many people make that choice.
00:03:37 Frank: Right.
00:03:38 Maria: Yeah. But I wanted to ask a little bit more about your current role, because you do engage with a lot of people. If you could just kind of share a little bit of that.
00:03:46 Frank: Yeah, absolutely. So, the organization I work for is called Gravyty. We offer a suite of different platforms and products where we serve independent schools, we serve nonprofit, we serve university and, in colleges. And I stumbled across this. Really, it goes back to March of 2020. I was doing, actually, another podcast. And when I was doing that podcast, post podcast, I had someone reach out to me on LinkedIn. It ended up being the founder of Gratavid. And he said, Hey, I listened to your podcast. I think I have a product that would benefit you. And I was like, Great, let me see it. I'm a yes person, not a no person. And that began to form this relationship with the founder of Gratavid and myself, where I gave a lot of insight, a lot of feedback. It was much appreciated.
00:04:48 Frank: And then it came December of 2020. And he said, Hey, I need more people like you on the team. And so I jumped in, had first, helped grow that organization. Like, since then I've met with thousands of people, like literally thousands of nonprofits, fundraisers, teams. And really, it's grown into this tremendous opportunity where I get to meet with people on a daily basis, hear what they're facing, offer them solutions, you know, if we're a good fit or not, and then, you know, get to share the stories with others.
00:05:29 Maria: Yeah, that's so exciting hearing how you got involved with that, because I feel like a lot of fundraisers would really like to know how they can transition from fundraising into the vendor side. And I just want to give a disclaimer, this episode is not sponsored. I just really like Frank and his experience, but just so people know. Like, yeah, so how was that transition from fundraiser to vendor? Like what are the benefits, the pros and cons?
00:05:58 Frank: Yeah, so for me, you know, the journey, I would say began back in 2016 to where I'm at today. It's fascinating because there's a lot of reflection that I took the time to look at. That's what we do in reflection is just taking a moment, taking a pause and understanding what we wanna do in the world and the impact we wanna leave. Some people find it sooner than others. And so I transitioned from the university space to the not-for-profit space because I felt there was more I could do and provide to people in a sense further upstream, further upstream who couldn't dream of ever going to university because of societal issues or inherent racism in the system or whatever it may be. I wanted to get further upstream to help more individuals. And so I moved to an organization and I said to myself, Okay, am I doing enough? Can we do more?
00:07:05 Frank: And I was kind of met and I hit that ceiling. I'm like, No, there's only so much we can do within this organization because of leadership, because of whatever the reasons. And so then I moved to the United Way and it was, I was still there. I was like, Great, I'm helping my community, but there's still so much more I can do. And so that's really what drove me to transition to this space is because I feel now my reach is much broader. I'm effectively supporting and helping organizations across North America. We have some worldwide clients as well. And, you know, the transition at first was a little scary. You know, there's always going to be and I feel everyone faces this when they transition to new roles is, there's an imposter syndrome.
00:07:52 Frank: There is like, am I going to be successful? Am I going to make this? And I think, you know, for me, it was like, I just have to commit and I have to have my guiding light, my North Star, my principles of why I'm doing this. It's not to make money, it's not to sell people products, it's really to support and help. And I'll either do that, providing services and platform solutions, all of that, or I'm gonna help with advice, ideas and all that.
00:08:23 Frank: Good example, I was on a webinar yesterday for AFP Global. And I had someone email me after and they just said, you know, we're talking about stewardship. And I brought up the fact that over the last 10 years, what have we been seeing? We're seeing declining household giving across, you know, the US, we're seeing it across philanthropy. And, you know, you have to start to wonder why and what has happened in the last 10 years? Well, you know, with the start of the digital revolution of giving, what have we done? We've automated things, we've removed the human and philanthropy is for the love of humanity, that is the root basis of what philanthropy is. And we remove the human out of the relationship.
00:09:14 Frank: And when we start, looking at why, are declining values, so that this individual, back to the story, she said, Hey, so, you know, you talked about personalization on the webinar, like, absolutely. And she goes, Well, what if we personalized the automatic reply when someone makes an online gift? I said, No one really reads that. When they get that automatic, it's just like, you've checked out or it's a confirmation. It is not a thank you. It's the second email that comes. That is what matters. It's that first email is to say, we got the money. Like the donor needs to know that, great. But the second one is, the fact that you recognized that you saw that gift come in. That is where the human component comes in.
00:10:03 Frank: And that was the recommendation I gave them. And that's where the personalization comes in. And there's school and I said, You know, look at the donor, just take like two minutes. Have they given before? Do they have a kid in school? Are they alumni? And just say that. That's all you have to do. It's that simple. But we let the world around us, this busyness factor, get in the way of connecting with people in a way that is meaningful and, you know, tangible and is human.
00:10:38 Maria: I feel like a lot of fundraisers feel like they struggle to do that in an authentic manner. Like, why should I be best friends with a donor? You know, what do we have to talk about? What would you say to them?
00:10:54 Frank: Great question. So I got my CFRE back in 2019, and I remember studying for the test. It was long overdue. I probably should have got it a lot sooner, but I don't like tests. I'm not a good test taker. So when I was studying for this test, one of the most difficult things about fundraisers that I learned was the balance between the professional and personal relationship with that donor. And really what we're here as fundraisers is to align philanthropic passions and interests and what the organization is doing to solve issues in the community or what the main mission is and then have a good alignment there. And so for those fundraisers who are, you know, worried about it or what we do, you don't have to talk about yourself if you don't want to. It'll certainly help. But bringing them back to the organization and the work that's going on, it doesn't have to be over complicated as well.
00:11:54 Frank: I feel sometimes we over complicate the thank you, we over complicate the relationship. It's as simple as, like what is driving you to do this? What essentially do you care about? And then what is the organization doing to solve and how they can come in to lift up the solutions of the organization versus the donor really driving being like, this is what I think you should do. And that doesn't always pan out to be the best because us as organizations, as nonprofits, we are the people who are face to face with the individuals we're serving, we're the “boots on the ground.” And we should be really driving where revenues and dollars are going versus donors telling us what to do.
00:12:45 Frank: But really back to the initial question you asked, it's as simple as, like, recognizing everyone is a human and we just need to connect on that level. And if you don't feel comfortable with it, maybe it's time to do some reflecting, like I did back in 2016.
00:13:03 Maria: Yeah. I like what you're saying, like, just basic, like, pick up the phone and say, Hey, how are you? Like, why do you give and engage them a little bit more in a professional way.
00:13:16 Frank: Yeah, and here's the thing, if you pick up the phone, I've called thousands of people in my lifetime. I was a student caller, but beyond that as a fundraiser, I utilized the heck out of the phone. And when you call someone, when you pick up the phone to call someone, the best advice I can give you is start off by saying, I'm not calling to ask you for money. Honestly, there's so many people that they put their guard up because they're getting a call from a nonprofit. What do they expect? They expect you to be calling and asking for money. And the easiest way to help drop their guard is to say, Hey, it's Frank. I'm calling from XYZ organization. I'm not calling to ask you for money. I'm actually calling to say thank you.
00:14:04 Frank: And that's what I would do. And it was an immediate drop in the guard. People would then open up, they're like, Oh, no way, you're actually calling me to thank me, and which also blew my mind. But it's some of the best advice there.
00:14:20 Maria: Sometimes I'll be fundraising at a client's event or something, and I'll be walking around talking to people, and then they're like, What do you do for the organization? I'm like, Oh, I'm a fundraiser. And they're like, Oh.
00:14:32 Frank: Yeah.
00:14:32 Maria: And I'm like, Oh, you know, like I lean into it to like make a joke out of their reaction. And it, like, breaks attention really easily. So definitely, you know, leaning into what you're doing like this is a stewardship piece. This is a fundraising piece and having people be aware of that right from the beginning.
00:14:50 Frank: Yeah, it reminds me of like, so I did sales, I talked about that. And some of the salespeople, some of the sales gurus, whoever you want to talk about Zig Ziglar, Brian Tracy, people like that. There was talk about people have, this negative connotation to sales. There is a negative connotation or people be like, I could never do fundraising, but honestly, I think, like we have to rewrite our story to really tell what we're doing because people think that all we do is ask for money. And really that's a small portion of our job. What we're here to do is to spread the word, to share what we're doing and to further engage people into the work and the outcomes. And if you do that, if you go about it the right way, really, the ask is not an ask. It's an invitation to partner further within that organization versus you being like, Will you give $500,000? No, it's like, let's partner together. And this is how we do it. And I feel that this is something you can do with us. And it just… it changes the narrative.
00:15:57 Maria: So much. And it will… puts the focus on the relationship, not on the ask, which is, you know, like when board members are like, I need an elevator pitch. It's like, No, you don't.
00:16:10 Frank: Yeah, just your story. Like, come on.
00:16:14 Maria: Okay, but I wanted to jump back to some of the trends that you've been seeing in the space because you're a person that has so much exposure to so many different organizations and fundraisers and EDs and just like nonprofit executives. So what are the things that they're capitalizing on at this time or missing out on? Any trends that you can speak to?
00:16:38 Frank: Yeah, so one big trend. So we'll talk about larger organizations and we'll come back to small because obviously this is, we're talking, who knows who's listening. It could be smaller, big or people transitioning. So one of the big trends I'm seeing just across the board and what we're seeing as an organization is people are not getting through their portfolios and their pipeline. We're all given a well. I will quote Benjamin Franklin very loosely here, but there's a quote from him that talks about, “You don't know the value of the well until the well is dry.” And so if we're sitting and we're constantly going out and trying to find new donors, air quotes there, or hit them up or this organization or this business and you're not paying attention to your current well of who you're talking to, the longevity and the infinite game within your organization is going to go away.
00:17:39 Frank: You're not going to find those dollars anymore and you're not going to retain donors because it is cheaper to retain a donor than it is to find one and we always get these board members. We're like, Why, you just need new donors. You need new donors. And it's like, Hey, our database is full of a thousand current donors or 500 current donors. What are you doing with them? What are you doing with them annually to not only retain, but move them up? And it doesn't have to be leaps and bounds. It can be incremental because if you're able to retain and move them up even $50 on average across your whole database. Imagine what that equates to within revenue.
00:18:23 Frank: And then the other big trend, like is mid-level. We're seeing a lot more people on the nonprofit side investing in mid-level giving. Everyone's gonna define mid-level a little differently so I'm not gonna put out a definition. And you also have to understand too, $1,000 to one donor is different than $1,000 to another. And that's why I try not to define where the mid-level dollar amount is because once you put a revenue, a dollar amount to an individual, now you're treating them as a checkbook versus a human. And so that's something to be aware of. And so we're seeing a lot of people investing in mid-level because when we look at the true pipeline to major gifts or to a planned gift, say, 38% of that, of those dollars are coming from people who had a first gift less than $1,000.
00:19:24 Frank: So imagine that, and then 50% of major gifts, it takes five years. So which brings me to my next point and the trend that we're seeing, which is, it's been going on for a while, is turnover. We're seeing turnover continue to plague our industry, both from the leadership level as well as the entry point. We're seeing people either jump organizations for whatever reason, we don't need to go too far into that. But we're seeing that as a huge issue and trend. So imagine, and I'll just be totally transparent. You all can look me up on LinkedIn, see my jumping. I'm one of the bad people, I jumped around organizations. How do you take a donor from zero to 30 or from mid-level to major if you're not gonna have that consistent relationship throughout and donors are starting to catch on. They're starting to get annoyed as well. Donors are getting annoyed because they're like, Oh, I already told everything, my life story to the previous person who called on me. Did they not take notes?
00:20:38 Frank: So that's like another big issue is we have turnover. And it's plaguing on the other side too, is we're not finding people or we're not, it's not that we're not finding people, we're not opening our eyes to the vast, the vastness of people without the background in fundraising, but they have the skillset to be able to do it. It might take a little more of a lift to get them to where you “need them to be at,” but we're not opening your eyes and understanding like, you know, someone doesn't really need a higher Ed degree to be a successful fundraiser. I've seen it many of times. And a person doesn't need to major in this or have their master's or MBA, like, come on, let's be real. Let's open it up and start to provide to everyone the opportunity to be a part of, you know, what we get to do on a daily basis, which is, share the love of humanity, philanthropy.
00:21:41 Frank: And then the other trends, you know, beyond just giving, going down is people back to like the whole staff turnover, people don't log things into their CRM, their database, their donor database. I was pretty good about it as a major gift officer, but people aren't logging calls, they're not logging emails and there's technology out there that can help that, but it starts with leadership. Like I mentioned, I worked at a fair amount of organizations and leaders, we make up excuses that we don't have the time to put stuff and we don't, X, Y, Z, we make excuses, but we have to lead because it's the speed of the leader is the speed of the group. If we're not doing it, if we're not being the showcase for it, no one else is gonna do it.
00:22:31 Frank: And that is a detriment to the relationship as well because when a new gift officer comes in, and there's zero notes, they start to make assumptions. Number one, no one ever called them. Number two, what organization did I just start working for? And so we have to do a better job about recording. And you know what? Donors expect us to know who they are, like to the most, like, finite level. And we don't, and we have to start doing a better job about that.
00:23:03 Maria: Yeah, because they've built a relationship with the organization for 20 years, even if you're new to the organization. And I think that is really unfair to the donor or to a volunteer, you know, to not know that information about someone who is greatly supportive of the cause. But I also understand why fundraisers are leaving, right? Lack of support, even engaging people like casting a wider net. There's no one to teach people how to fundraise. So I don't know about you, but I have to teach a lot of the things that I know to myself or through peers.
00:23:38 Maria: So it's a little bit hard because like we want to continue our sector, but we're not giving ourselves the opportunity to pause, to reset. Because if we paused, like, Hey, we're gonna not do programming for a week or two weeks. And we're gonna implement all these logistical changes. And we're gonna have, you know, listening sessions with our staff for three days to hear exactly what we're talking about. And we're gonna do a board training so they understand the difference between membership and a board member. So like real governance, like deep details, right? Yeah, I just wish we gave ourselves a little bit more opportunity to not martyr ourselves for the cause.
00:24:22 Frank: Yeah, well, and where are we finding these resources? I think that's the other thing too is like, when we start to peel back the onion about the resources that are out there, I made this comment the other day and this is like, you know, no ill will to anyone. But if you start to look at the thought leaders or the voices within the philanthropic community who are leading these conversations, they tend to skew one way. They're skewed the same way that our leadership at these nonprofits look like. But if we actually once again peel back another layer, it's 75% to 80% of fundraisers identify as female. And of that, 8% are people of color. And so then if we go and we look at leadership, or if we look at consultants, once again, no ill will here. It tends to skew white male.
00:25:25 Frank: And so the thought leaders, the voices, how are we ever gonna change or grow as a system if we have the same people at the table, the same people telling organizations what they should be doing? We're never gonna see the effective change that's gonna support our community as a whole because when we once again peel back another layer, our community is not predominantly white male. We're a mix of different individuals who identify in many different ways and many different creeds and religions and all of that. If we don't have that good representation both in the consulting space as well as the top leadership, we're going to continue to have the same results. It's the definition of insanity. That's really another thing. We have to stop and look in the mirror and be like, is this right? How do we effectively push things forward to make those changes as well?
00:26:23 Maria: I could talk about this for like 10 days.
00:26:26 Frank: Yeah, I figured I was preaching to the choir here. So I love it.
00:26:29 Maria: Wait, let's jump back to what you were saying about, you know, this major gift officer is coming to an organization and there's no data, right? Something that I've been thinking about recently is we don't keep good track of our data, which means that we can't capitalize on opportunities that some AI softwares can provide because we don't have the data. We can't ultra personalize using data as an individual or through a software that reminds you to connect with this donor. So I don't know, have you seen people utilizing AI like that?
00:27:03 Frank: Yeah, somewhat. So like some of the stuff we offer, and once again, this is not sponsored by anyone. I'll share a little, not here to do a sales pitch. Some of the stuff we offer is, you know, our AI would connect with a portfolio, with your CRM and a closed system. And what we then do is we analyze, the AI analyzes your whole donor base and understands who your top prospects are. And then it feeds them to you one at a time. So then you can properly prospect and prioritize. You know, I talked to an organization earlier this week, they don't have a prospect researcher. Not everyone has, you know, the benefit of that, they're doing their own prospecting, their own research, their own prioritization. That takes a ton of time.
00:27:53 Frank: And what we're seeing is on the… if you're able to automate tasks, repetitive tasks, through automation, it's gonna save you six plus hours a week. And we talk about, like where we're spending our time and we make excuses on why we can't do certain aspects of our job. So if you're able to automate parts of your job or it feeds you the right person to talk to at the right time because that's what AI is saying, it's gonna save you a ton of time. The other thing too is like we say there isn't info in the CRM, there might not be, but you know where they live. You know if they have an email, a phone number, and if they're a donor, you know where they've been giving and how long. That's enough to get off on the right foot.
00:28:39 Frank: It reminds me of a story. I had a donor who was completely unresponsive. They visited with one person like back in 2004. And I'll come back to that whole thing. But, so I looked through their record and I noticed they'd just given ten thousand dollars. That ten thousand dollars put them over two hundred thousand lifetime. My email went, Hey, so and so, your last gift put you over two hundred thousand lifetime giving. And then that was the subject line. And then the rest of the email was like, This is what it translates into, in those that you're supporting in the community. I would love to share more about the stories and individuals. It was an immediate reply back. I didn't have any info on them, that I, you know, I Googled them, of course, and I did some of that.
00:29:30 Frank: But really what was in the database was enough to make it successful for that next step. And then once I visited with them, I found out one of our gift officers back in 2004 did a drop-in visit, which is, like, kind of fascinating.
00:29:44 Maria: Drop-in, like surprise?
00:29:46 Frank: Ah, yeah. They showed up to their door. I know, I was like, is this real life? And she said it was actually meaningful to them because like the thing they spun, the gift officer, and like we know because we're in the industry, but they showed up and they said, Hey, you know, I was in your neighborhood and I just wanted to meet someone who's so generous and you know, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, they kind of made something up. So I wouldn't necessarily recommend doing that. But they were like, they couldn't believe someone showed up just to stop by to say thank you. And it was just kind of fascinating.
00:30:20 Maria: Oh, I really want to talk to someone who has done that consistently in here. Cause I'm very familiar with door to door, right? I started in face to face fundraising. I've never done door to door, but it was one of the packages that we offered. But like as a major gift fundraiser, who already knows who's living in there and, like your net worth and where you work and all these items to be like, surprise. I don't know, it's a really interesting strategy.
00:30:48 Frank: Yeah, it wasn't my favorite that I heard the organization was doing. They did it a lot actually. So the plan giving team did it. They would just show up randomly at people's houses, knocking the door, like I was in the area. And I mean, it worked for him, but the demographics skewed to people who are more familiar with a door-to-door piano salesman versus–
00:31:18 Maria: An unexpected drop-by.
00:31:20 Frank: Me as a millennial, be like, What are you doing here? Get away from me.
00:31:23 Maria: Yeah. Even if it's your friend, Go away.
00:31:26 Frank: Yeah, like, Why are you here?
00:31:29 Maria: I have to clean my house, okay? Everything has to be perfect. Yeah. Yeah, so what other trends can you speak about? Because I like the AI one, and I like what you're saying about, like there's still data in there that you can use. Is there anything else?
00:31:46 Frank: We alluded to it a little. We're seeing a mass exodus in the nonprofit sector. It's not a good upward trend. And it's a matter of like, How do we keep people? How do we keep people engaged? And if you look at the structure of a lot of nonprofits, it's very flat. It's you have your fundraiser, you have their manager, and then you have a VP. And there's really no space for a long-term career. And some people are totally fine, like being a fundraiser for their life. Like, and that's awesome, I love it. And some people are like, I want more, I wanna do more, I wanna move up. And a lot of these organizations, there's no ability to really do that. And so a lot of people are finding that there's also burnout. People are frustrated. Individuals are frustrated because they're short staffed.
00:32:42 Frank: And then that leads to like all this, like, cycle, of just ill will in a sense where they're just overworked and you have to make decisions in your life. And then like certain fundraisers, I just heard this from someone else, like take New York City, it's expensive to live there. How do you not only effectively run a nonprofit, raise money, pay for rent, and then pay people a living wage. Like, how do you do that? Like, you're in Toronto, you like, same ordeal. Like, how do you pay someone a living wage and then expect them to come to the office? And it's no wonder that places outside of the city, two, three hours away from the downtown area, are, like, becoming hubs because of the cost of living.
00:33:30 Frank: And so how do we balance our books, pay people a living wage, and still serve our mission and do what we're doing? And that's that we're gonna be faced with some hard decisions here in the future. And is AI the silver bullet? No, is it gonna replace people? Some, it'll replace some. The stat there is, by 2030, 30% of jobs can be replaced by AI. What does that look like? Well, just like when the automobile came about, the horse and buggy went away, took about 30 years, but we didn't see huge mass loss. We saw a shifting of where we served. And so we're really, really at an infancy stage within AI. I mean, it's been around for a bit of time now, like Siri, Amazon, who's always listening to us, all of that, but it's gonna be exciting and interesting to see where industry shifts happen not only in our sector, but just across the country and the continent and where things go.
00:34:37 Frank: But that's one trend is, like, people think AI is a silver bullet or could be, and it's really we're still in very early phases. We still need humans. People want to talk to humans. Like how many times have you called a customer service line and you get the AI person and you're like, operator, operator, operator, and like, just give me a human for heaven's sake. We're still at that point. And we need humans, we're gonna need humans in the fundraising space for the foreseeable future.
00:35:11 Maria: Something that you said really stuck out to me, so I want to ask about it. Are people still forcing fundraisers to come to the office and work in the office? Because that was something that I was, that was the hill I was going to die on with my team. I was like, We're not coming to the office. I do not need my major gifts officer just sitting at a desk. I need her out having lunch with people, out like having walks, like not in the office. So are you seeing that a lot still where people are forced to come in?
00:35:42 Frank: Some organizations are really pushing it for people to be in the office. You know, I remember, so when I worked for the United Way, my boss was always like, Well, if you're in here, then that's not a good thing, because it means you're not in front of donors. Well, I get it, but then if you're not there, what happens? You get an email or a text message to say, Hey, where are you at, today? It's like, Well, I'm meeting with donors, like I'm doing what you want me to do. And so I had, like, an agreement with my boss. I said, if this meeting, like if I got scheduled to the meeting, I said number one, if there's no agenda, I'm not coming. I said, if there's no agenda for a meeting, it's a waste of my time, I'm not coming. And then number two, I said, if the meeting has nothing to do with me stewarding, building relationships and asking for money from donors or asking them to get more engaged, like I said earlier, then I have full right of refusal not to show up. And he said, okay.
00:36:47 Frank: And so we had that agreement because my job at the end of the day is to make sure the organization can practice its mission, can go forward. And I said, If you ever text me, and you're like, Where are you? Don't text me that. Text me, Hey, how are visits going? Or text me, Hey, I noticed you had a big gap in your calendar, let's check in. Like do it constructively, not assumptively. And that was like a big ordeal. And I tell this story all the time. People like, you actually did them like, yeah, because what are you going to do? You can fire me. I'm producing as a fundraiser, but you can fire me and good luck because the ramp up time for another gift officer to get to like my last year at the United Way, I raised $3 million. So like, good luck. And like, I understood that, but I also was working hard and wanted to make change. And so it was just a fun agreement I had.
00:37:48 Maria: No, I love that. And also that's like my signature line. Like, what are you gonna do, fire me? We have so much power as fundraisers. Like we hold all your connections, all the purse strings, right? We know exactly what donors want, what they're thinking. And like, we should be treated with basic respect, like don't micromanage me, don't talk down to me, don't put a ridiculous fundraising budget on me while I'm actually doing 17 other things. So yeah, I love that.
00:38:20 Frank: Yeah. Your point you just said got me thinking about something else. So like we hold all the strings. That is also a problem. So when we look at the relationships, people are always asking. Well, how do you really get a relationship with the organization? Because if it's an individual relationship, that's a lot of the one-to-one, it's that balance again, the professional and personal. Full transparency here, I'm very open. I had a kid, well, my wife had a kid, but we had a child. And this was four years ago. I knew it was gonna be out, November and I hand wrote a ton of Thanksgiving cards. So in the US, our Thanksgiving's, in November, which is awful. I wish it was like the Canadian Thanksgiving because it's like, let's just pack everything into the end of the year, like brilliant.
00:39:18 Frank: But, so we have this issue of, the… who's the relationship really with. And so I sent out a message saying, Hey, I'm out of office, we had our kid, blah, blah, blah. I'm gonna be out for two months. You know, let me know. So, you know, I'm in the US, two months, like that was a lot of time. And so I actually had donors send me cards. They sent me cards, like Congratulations. I'm like, Oh my gosh, one set an outfit for, it was a company onesie.
00:39:46 Maria: Stop, that's so cute.
00:39:49 Frank: But they sent me cards and stuff. And I'm like, Oh my goodness, is this okay? Like, so they like, yeah, they know me at a human level. But then the other issue is like when I left the organization, I let them all know and a lot of them are like, I'm sad, like this has been like the best contact we've had, blah, blah, blah, not to like, toot my own horn. And so the problem I see is the relationship is still supposed to be the organization. How do you do that? How do you effectively transition a mid-level donor to a major gift donor? How do you bring them closer? And it deals with the relationships, not just with you, but it deals with relationships with other people at the organization. I was very intent and very mindful of that.
00:40:35 Frank: So I would introduce people to our CEO if they were prospective principal level gift or a principal level gift officer because I knew in five years from now, they can move to that level. I'd introduce them to our program staff. I would introduce them to our SVP of community impact or to my boss or to my coworkers, my colleagues. I would introduce my donors to anyone and everyone at my organization. So if I ever left or if I transitioned the relationship, they knew who was there. And then it gave them a holistic picture and view of who we were as an organization. And I feel sometimes we get so territorial that we don't want to do that because we don't want someone to take our donor. And it's not our donor. It's not our relationship. The relationship is with the organization. And we have to remind ourselves that and to do that, you have to introduce them to other people.
00:41:31 Maria: Yeah, I've definitely seen organizations get super gate-keepy with like, my billionaire donors, only I can talk to them. But I don't know, they don't super only want to talk to you. You're the person who probably knows the least about what's happening on the ground. And they really appreciate those one-on-ones with staff. And like, talk about and, being able to ask those questions themselves. So it's really, really nice and interesting.
00:41:56 Frank: We do that with board members too. Sometimes the executive directors protect the board members from the staff or whatever. What are you hiding? Like if you're a fiduciary board and they can hire or fire the executive director, like are you protecting yourself by the staff not having a relationship with the board members? It's not a good long-term strategy because the board also needs and should see the amazing people you have working for you. And if you can't say that, either maybe you should fire yourself or you should reevaluate your staff because if you're not comfortable with them meeting your board, I think you need to do some reevaluation there.
00:42:42 Maria: So today's lesson is fire yourself. No, just kidding. Okay, well, thank you so much, Frank, for all your time. You've been so generous with your expertise. Any way that people can find you, how can they connect with you, how can they learn more?
00:43:00 Frank: Yeah, so I'm easy to find on LinkedIn. It's Frank Mumford, and then my email is frank.mumford, I'm gonna spell it out, at Gravyty, but it's with a Y. It's G-R-A-V-Y-T-Y dot com. Some people call it gravy, thank you. But it's Gravyty.
00:43:27 Maria: Oh my God, I'm so excited to call it that from now.
00:43:30 Frank: It's not, I probably shouldn't put that out there. But I just did.
00:43:34 Maria: Okay, well thank you so much for your time and thank you all for tuning in to our episode today. I am Maria Rio with The Small Nonprofit and we'll chat next time. Bye for now.
00:43:53 Maria: Thank you for listening to another episode of The Small Nonprofit. If you want to continue the conversation, feel free to connect with our guests directly or find me on LinkedIn. Let's keep moving money to mission and prioritizing our well-being. Bye for now.
